something always bugged me about the society's publications.
they'd always use phrases like "many persons do this" or "one expert says", or "many believe".
the person being referred to or quoted is always veiled in obscurity.
Would you quote someone who did not prove your point very well? Like Upton Sinclair!
How about all the past WTBTS or Bible Student books prior to 1950s that are quoted like important historical books in the Revelation Book? Yet, the Jehovah Witnesses are not allow to read them to see if they agree or not with the publishers view points.
revelation climax pg 158, paragraph 16. .
revelation 12:7 .
who is michael?
Here is the reason why I am not a Jehovah Witness! I hope you like my post.
A SWEET A BITTER MESSAGE
“And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrising, having a seal of the living God…”
Though this fifth angel is not named, all the evidence indicates that he must be the glorified Lord Jesus. Revelation Climax, page 115 paragraph 7.
Q Who Is This Fifth Angel? It is evidently the glorified Jesus Christ in another role.
And I saw another strong angel descending from heaven, arrayed with a cloud, and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as the sun, and his feet were as fiery pillars, 2 and he had in his hand a little scroll opened. And he set his right foot upon the sea, but his left one upon the earth, NWT. Revelation 10:1.
5 And the angel that I saw standing on the sea and on the earth raised his right hand to heaven, 6 and by the One who lives forever and ever, who created the heaven and the things in it and the earth and the things in it and the sea and the things in it, he swore: “There will be no delay any longer, Revelation 10:5, 6.
The glorified Jesus swears not by himself, but by the highest Authority of all, Jehovah, Revelation Climax pg, 157paragraph, 10.
Go; take the opened scroll that is in the hand of the angel… And I went away to the angel…” Revelation 10:8
The opened scroll that the glorified Jesus Christ gives to John. Revelation Climax pg 158, paragraph 16.
7 And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. Revelation 12:7
Who Is Michael? Michael means Who Is Like God? …Interestingly, the title “archangel’ is used elsewhere in the Bible with reference to only one person: Jesus Christ.Revelation Climax pg 180, paragraph 16.
My Q: The WTBTS borrowed One Who Is Like God from the Catholics, the Catholics borrowed the meaning from the Jewish scholars. What scriptures did the Jewish scholars use to come up with the meaning of Michael? How come the John class did not noticed how the Jewish scholar came up with Who Is Like God?
“And I saw, and, look! A white cloud, and upon the cloud someone seated like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. And another angel emerged from the temple sanctuary…” Rev 14:14-16. And another angel… and still another angel. Rev 14: 17, 18 see Rev. Climax page 212 para 24.
How many another Angels are there in the book of Revelations
! See Revelation Climax page 115, paragraph 7. JAngel speaking to John:
10 At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he (angel) tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing to Jesus. Worship God; for the bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying.” Rev, 19:10
Did Jesus rebuke John not to do obeisance with the eleven disciples? See Mathew 28:16 so why would an angel warn him? Because he was a fellow slave? Is Jesus a fellow slave (another angel, strong angel, or archangel) witnessing to himself, or do the angels bear witness to Jesus?
Are the following angels slave for the witness to Jesus: Strong Angel or Mighty Angel, Another Angel, and Michael the Archangel.
There is no room in pure worship for worship of the angels or even for relative worship, directing worship to God via some “saints” or angel. Rev, Climax book page 278, para 21.
Q What attitude should Christians have toward angles? Rev, Climax page 278, para 21. There is no room in pure worship for worship of the angels or even for relative worship, directing worship to God via some “saint” or angel.
According to the John class: The apostles John, who wrote down Revelation, describes himself as such a slave. “He was the last surviving slave apostle and one of the select spirit-anointed group of slaves.” Revelation Climax page 15, para, 3.
Let no man deprive YOU of the prize who takes delight in a [mock] humility and a form of worship of the angels, “taking his stand on” the things he has seen, puffed up without proper cause by his fleshly frame of mind, Colossians 2:18
Does worshiping include bowing head or obeisance?
16 However, the eleven disciples went into Gal´i·lee to the mountain where Jesus had arranged for them, 17 and when they saw him they did obeisance, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Mathew 28:16
1. Obeisance - respectful gesture: a gesture of respect or deference, e.g. a bow of the head (formal)
Encarta ® World English Dictionary
.Why did the disciples doubt? Did the disciples do obeisance on regular bases?
Bright Light Moment: Who would have guessed that we were bowing our heads at the meetings yet the apostles hesitated to even do this with the resurrected Jesus!
If John was the Apostle John of Christ time, did he bow down to Christ? Did Christ rebuke him? Did the angel in Revelations 19:10 rebuke Apostle John?
Jehovah referring to Jesus:
4 So he has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.
5 For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say: “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father”? And again: “I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son”? 6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all God’s angels do obeisance to him.” Hebrew 1:4-6.
Can angels do obeisance (bow) to Jesus?
But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners.” Hebrew 1:8 see other bible verses
REVIEW QUESTIONS
Who is another angel?
Who is the fifth angel and is he the Glorified Jesus Christ?
Was Jesus identified separate from another angel? Rev 14:14-16
Is the strong angel the Glorified Jesus Christ?
Is Michael, Jesus Christ? I think this has been beat up too much! I say no!
If the WTBTS really believes that Michael is Jesus then why use Jesus 2000 year old name?
In the Revelation Climax book, how many angel roles does Jesus play?
Should angels or humans worship, obeisance, or bow to other slaves?
Does angels or humans worship, obeisance, or bow to Jesus?
Did a fellow slave warn John about bowing down to Angels?
When was the time of fulfillment of the vision regarding another strong angel, evidently Jesus, and John eating the little scroll? :-)
you may have heard about that celestial chariot at the meetings or a$$emblies.
this is in reference to the book of ezekiel, and when they go through that book, that chariot is commonly referred to.
it is described as being infinitely maneuverable and having eyes on all its tires, which are 3-d.. the real joke is that the watchtower society claims to be that chariot.
I forgot all about that little fact! Now how can they be God's chariot?
See I think this is not just a JW thought I bet if you get a commentary you will find other churches believe in this wacked out crap!
Not that the bible is wacked out but the churches and org, are for thinking they are God's chariot!
Good post!
i'm on revelation duty again this week.
i figure if i'm marking it, i can comment on it, too.
http://reactor-core.org/faith-on-the-march.html (faith on the march page 47 and 48).
Oh my the sealed in the forehead is next, page 116.
And here a page I can not make any common sense out of Chapter 20 page 120. I hope you all look at that page. I tried to scan it but hmmm still working on that scanner.
It is too funny! They quote from old books but can not read them!
TOO CRAZY!
ok back to the subject hmm err! How can anyone be a JW after this book? You know you can read this chapter and still not make anything out of the 1914 doctrine.
There is not a time I can open up this book and say the light is getting brighter!
I can not imagine going door to door with this book and thinking I am a prophet for God.
...using bible scripture (i knwo they can quote whatever the wts says about it, but im trying to understand how do they come to that conclusng using bible verses.
also, in doing a little research, there is something very interesting that came up, and i never ever hear this from the jw.
they always claim that the 12 tribes in rev.
Revelation 6:
9 And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been.
Revelation 7:3
saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:
The 144,000 were already sealed.
9 After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, No man but God know the number out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
No man was able to number but God knows how many will join the ones "until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been."
11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell upon their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
I think I will keep thinking the 144,000 is a symbolic number.
ok i got to thinking, the elders cover up and do not report allegations of child molestation and if they know of a known molester amongst them they do not warn the cong, correct me if i am wrong but isn't that a crime?
sexual offenders are supposed to stay away from areas were child ren congregate, such as a playground, school, library etc.... jessica lunsfords neighbor was charged with harbouring a pedo, (he was not registered at her home) isn't that the same thing the elders are doing?.
anyone care to enlighten me?.
If the person is a register sex offender, It depends if their probation officers allow them to go to church. Some churches will have a person assigned to the sex offender during service.
As far as covering it up! I think with time and many people coming forward the WTBTS will need to make changes.
Sex offenders are in all churches and the WTBTS is not unique to these problems!
I would like to see elders prosecuted! :-)
.
if so, what do you think will happen when it comes?.
WTBTS scares their people with the armageddon subject. They try to say that other churches and people out there do not know what is going on in the world. I watch Trinity channel and it seems like they do know.
Good topic, I really do not know what to think about it! Perhaps it tribulation until Armageddon.
I believe in the Bible that is for sure! and it is no myth! humans make myths.
benefit from theocratic ministry school education--2001--pdf--(approx.
70mb) what does the front cover of this book look like?
click here:http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?7f91132b9e.jpg click the link below and when the next page appears scroll down to the bottom of the page and a small (red arrow) will point to the download link.
There is one benefit, most Jdub are good in sales. Once again it is misleading on the God ruled ministry part! I guess for the youth they might think it is a real school with education. LOL
i need some support, some suggestions, and perhaps a gut-check.
my husband was baptized in march.
he was raised from the time he was about 7 until his mom kicked him out at 15 (wasn't she loving?
YOUR husband has a long way to go, so hang in there and try not to take his new found faith to serious. I can tell you from personal experience it might fade!
Reality will hit him soon! and you will be there for him. :-)
...using bible scripture (i knwo they can quote whatever the wts says about it, but im trying to understand how do they come to that conclusng using bible verses.
also, in doing a little research, there is something very interesting that came up, and i never ever hear this from the jw.
they always claim that the 12 tribes in rev.
That is a good question! Why do they think that only the 144,000 should partake and go to heaven. Why not all who believe in Christ partake heavenly, earthly, or hell boy class! I like Hell boy!
